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Visit Michael Lockwood's column >>

MICHAEL LOCKWOOD

Articles Posted: 1  Links Seeded: 7
Member Since: 8/2008  Last Seen: 3/16/2012

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Senate downs Dream Act

Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:36 PM EST
amnesty, us-news, illegal-immigration, dream-act
By Michael Lockwood

Live Poll

Do you think that illegal aliens should benefit from their crimes

View Results
  • 129813
    yes
    4%
  • 129814
    no
    96%

VoteTotal Votes: 27

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The Senate just voted down the Dream Act. In a vote for cloture the Dreamers went down in flames as 41 Senators chose not to grant a back door amnesty to the children of illegal aliens.

The law would have given the children of illegals the right to go to college on the American Tax payer's dime. They would have been eligible for Stafford loans which are paid for by tax dollars and they would have been eligible for work/study positions. This law would give those children, who are also here illegally, up to 10 years to earn two years of college or to complete two years of military service with no stated recourse against them if they failed.

Many advocates in their arguments for the passage of this Bill touted the CBO report that estimated that by allowing the Bill to pass, it would reduce the National Debt by $1.5 Billion dollars over the first 10 years of the program. However, those same Advocates do not mention the fact that the same CBO report estimates that the Bill will add in excess of $2-3 Billion dollars to the deficit over the following 10 years.

Some other facts the advocates for Dream leave out is that the CBO estimates that over 50% of these "best and brightest"will drop out of the program after the first five years. The CBO also estimates that only 15% of these "kids" will default on student loans even though the National default rate for student loans in two year colleges is over 31%. These Dream Advocates also overlook the fact that this Bill would have allowed the illegal alien parents of these children to benefit from their original crimes of breaking the immigration laws of the United States. The law applies to all children 12 years to 29 years of age., the parents of the younger children would have been allowed to stay due to their children needing supervision and a place to stay at least until the age of 18.

There are several other problems with this Bill including the fact that Janet Napalitano, the Chief of Homeland Security, had the power to waive many of the requirements in the Dream Act and that applicant could have up to three misdemeanor convictions and still be eligible.

This vote should put an end to any hope for this back door amnesty program especially since the face of the House of Representatives will change so much after the New Year and the Democrat majority in the Senate will be much smaller. With several of the States lining up with anti-illegal immigration laws, like Arizona's SB1070, the Congress may be forced to actually enforce the immigration laws on the books and deport all detained illegals instead of deferring action for years.

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Published to:

  • Michael Lockwood's Column, All of Newsvine
  • Groups: Aliens and Law Enforcement, Arizona Viners, FOX NEWS, Illegal Immigration Watchdogs, Legal/illegal Immigration, No Amnesty, Outraged Americans For Justice, rightwingers, The Conservative Vine
  • Regions: none
  • Public Discussion (26)
ScienceGuy-356641

No surprise that the Senate GOP would block the DREAM Act from a final vote. To do otherwise would be contrary to their non-empathetic, self-serving nature.

All too often, they base their policy decisions on their own perverse, delusional fantasies and the hyperbolic rhetoric being uttered by right wing pundits rather than on sound reasoning based on empirical data and evidence.

  • 4 votes
Reply#1 - Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:02 PM EST
Navy Doc 8404/06/09

non-empathetic, self-serving nature
That's the American way. Land of opportunity for those willing to bust their ass for it. No free lunches here Lib.

  • 2 votes
#1.1 - Sun Dec 19, 2010 7:53 PM EST
Reply
my-pockets-r-mt

The vote against it should have been higher.

Now, enforce laws already in place, secure the borders, deport illegals.

  • 10 votes
Reply#2 - Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:09 PM EST
PERRY-386792

it should not have been higher.

it never should have come to a vote in the first place

  • 3 votes
#2.1 - Sun Dec 19, 2010 7:18 PM EST
Reply
mgbirish

This vote should put an end to any hope for this back door amnesty program especially since the face of the House of Representatives will change so much after the New Year and the Democrat majority in the Senate will be much smaller.

kinda like this one:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2008/jan/06/rudy-giuliani/yep-reagan-did-the-a-word/

  • 3 votes
Reply#3 - Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:46 PM EST
mon glas

Regarding Reagans amnesty, it was wrong then and it is wrong now. Because of the lax interpretations of the Reagan amnesty coupled with abuse of the legislation by politicans, farmers/corporations, and of course illegal alien criminals, we have today 15 million additional, and a growing number of illegal aliens that have invaded our Nation. You can blame todays problem again on all the above and on the illegals that were granted amnesty before! A lot of the illegal aliens given amnesty before brought their relatives here and is still doing so today!

And lets not forget about the corrupt governments of Mexico and South and Central America among other countrys that seem to think America should give all of their people that want to come illegally into our country amnesty and a free ride. You can thank our Foreign Policy BS for that. I have heard many people state we are becoming the laughing stock of the world. Its not America becoming the laughing stock of the world, its the American people that are forced to pay taxes to support these criminals and their governments that are the laughing stock of the world. If we weren't it would not be happening!

  • 3 votes
#3.1 - Sun Dec 19, 2010 6:49 AM EST
ArizonaBill

mon glas , good morning ! For once it seems this "Illegal's Dream Act" is dead for a while !

Wonder now if the Illegals will carry through with their Threats to cause a bunch of trouble around the Country if we did not meet their demands on this ?

  • 5 votes
#3.2 - Sun Dec 19, 2010 7:00 AM EST
mon glas

Hey good morning Arizonabill. I missed out on the news yesterday, spent day fighting the crowds shopping. lol

Allowing this legislation to pass would have been a disaster. Aside from giving the adult illegal aliens disguised as minor children brought here against their will a free pass, it would have been an open door for allowing millions more of illegals to come here.

I think they are getting the message Americans are not going to tolerate their criminal acts any longer. If they choose to cause any trouble, then that will be the final factor in showing their intentions in the first place. They somehow think they have rights to invade and we should give them whatever they want. The politicans that have supported this invasion have upheld these criminal acts and will be voted out. Those that were re-elected in the midterms were re-elected by the people that supported the Dream Act and future amnesty for all the illegal aliens. Its time to rid our country of all illegal criminals and shut down the border once and for all.

  • 3 votes
#3.3 - Sun Dec 19, 2010 7:51 AM EST
Reply
jwc2blue

Well Mr. Lockwood, I didn't respond to your poll because the question is simply ridiculous.

I don't want anyone to benefit from their crimes, not even a skinhead.

I am curious as to what crime a child who was brought into this country illegally by his/her parents is guilty of. What about that child's children? Should they be deported as well?

Since I'm sure that you're not the least little bit racist and know that illegals come here from all over the world, have you gone to immigration to make absolutely certain that your family didn't come here illegally?

They would have been eligible for Stafford loans which are paid for by tax dollars.

Also, you have apparently made the mistake of depending on Fox for your facts. Here is how a Stafford Loan (you see, it's called a LOAN) is paid for. http://www.staffordloan.com/repayment/

  • 3 votes
Reply#4 - Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:57 PM EST
ArizonaBill

jwc2blue,,Your Question was,,, "am curious as to what crime a child who was brought into this country illegally by his/her parents is guilty of."

The Illegals "Dream Act" which was called the "The Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minors Act"

Is a Sham as the only "Minors" it would aid are 16 and 17 year old ! The truth is it was meant to aid those that are 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, and 29 years of age.

Another Truth all of these Illegals have had the chance since they turned 18 to apply for a Student Visa, Green Card or Citizenship,,none have ! Why ?? Only two reason's I can think of is that they are either to Lazy or they believed they could Force America to reward them for their crimes against us.

As all of them have committed many crimes other than just crossing the Border Illegally, such as they drive with a fake or stolen license, that is a felony. They work with fake or stolen ID again a felony. Most of these adults have lived a life of crime since they illegally came here, and are not the kind of people we want or need in this Country.

If they want to be part of this Country, they can come here just like Millions of other good, Honest, law abiding Immigrants have !

  • 6 votes
#4.1 - Sun Dec 19, 2010 6:28 AM EST
Reply
Michael Lockwood

jwc2blue

My grandfather was born on the Apache Indian Reservation in Oklahoma. Both of his parents were also born in this Country as were all their ancestors. No I'm as legal as anyone can be.

As to the crimes, I am referring to the parents. If you had taken the time to read the law and the article you would know that the illegals that originally committed the crime of breaking our immigration laws and probably our labor laws would benefit from the passage of the act if they had children between the ages of 12 and 17. They would have been given conditional status right along with their children so that there wouldn't be a bunch of homeless kids running the streets.

As to your last point on the Stafford loans, if you do any kind of research past your nose you would find that my comment on the 31% default rate is accurate and not from any news site such as FOX or MSNBC.

  • 3 votes
Reply#5 - Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:17 PM EST
jwc2blue

. If you had taken the time to read the law and the article

Oh, but I did. That's what makes your poll so ridiculous. How are the children criminals who are benefitting if their parents are the criminals?

if you do any kind of research past your nose

Which is where the link came from.

And yours?

  • 2 votes
#5.1 - Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:35 PM EST
Michael Lockwood

Well lets see if you go to the CBO's website on the Dream Act you will see that they state that only about 50% of total applicants will be eligible past the first 5 years of their entry into the program. I'm sure you will have no problem finding that report using any search engine.

For the 31% default rate I will make it even easier for you I will give you a post and Im sure using any info from their will help you confirm in your mind those statistics.

http://chronicle.com/article/Many-More-Students-Are/66223/

  • 5 votes
#5.2 - Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:54 PM EST
ArizonaBill

Micheal,, "The law applies to all children 12 years to 29 years of age"

The latest revised version of the Illegal's Dream Act would have only applied to people 16 to 29 years of age. Which is one reason it was called a "Sham" as clearly it was for Adults that have long had the chance to become Legal had they choose to. And the only minors it would have applied to were 16 and 17 year olds.

  • 4 votes
#5.3 - Sun Dec 19, 2010 7:08 AM EST
Michael Lockwood

ArizonaBill

I respectfully disagree with you. I have included the link to HR 5281 with the CRS Summary

Under Section 10 of the Bill directs the Attorney General to (1) stay the removal of certain aliens who are at least 12 years old and who are full-time elementary or secondary students; and (2) lift such stay if an alien is no longer enrolled in a primary or secondary school or ceases to meet the appropriate requirements.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:HR05281:@@@D&summ2=m&

    #5.4 - Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:29 AM EST
    ArizonaBill

    Micheal, I checked what you stated and it looks like you are Right ! At the last minute it was the Dem's that wanted to renege on their promise to make it 16 to 29 .

    And that was the reason if was defeated, darn they had the votes to pass it till , it was the Dem's that shot it down,, WOW ! Great catch, I must admitt I missed that one !

    • 2 votes
    #5.5 - Sun Dec 19, 2010 7:04 PM EST
    Reply
    Polka14

    I am glad the Senate did not pass the "Dream" Act. The American government should not be giving any kind of aid to illegal foreigners.

    • 9 votes
    Reply#6 - Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:22 PM EST
    jwc2blue

    For the 31% default rate I will make it even easier for you I will give you a post and Im sure using any info from their will help you confirm in your mind those statistics.

    Yep, that was easy. What isn't so easy is seeing how you link that to the Dream Act.

    "For loans made to community-college students, the 15-year default rate is 31 percent. David S. Baime, senior vice president for government relations at the American Association of Community Colleges, called that number "shockingly high."

    I see no mention of those criminals here, do you?

    They would have been eligible for Stafford loans which are paid for by tax dollars

    Since you seem to be singling these out, it appears that you may have missed this from your source as well.

    "Only 10 percent of community-college students took out federal Stafford loans—the most common type of federal education loan—in the 2007-8 academic year, and most borrowed less than $10,000, according to the College Board. At for-profit colleges, 88 percent of students took out Stafford loans, and nearly 20 percent of associate-degree recipients graduated with more than $30,000 in debt. Those borrowing rates reflect the higher cost of attending a for-profit college. In the 2009-10 academic year, the average for-profit institution charged $14,174 in tuition and fees, according to the College Board, and the average community college only $2,544."

    • 3 votes
    Reply#7 - Sat Dec 18, 2010 3:01 PM EST
    Michael Lockwood

    Linking it was easy. I will spell out the simple logic and hopefully you can follow along

    The fact is 31% of those receiving loans in two year colleges defaulted.

    The CBO estimates that approx 2 million illegals would take part in the Dream Act had it been approved in the first year.

    Of that amount they estimated 15% or 300,000 of those illegals would take out student loans (tax payer money).

    31% of that number is approx. 93,000 defaulted loans. At approx $30 k each equals $2.79 billion dollars of defaulted loans backed by tax payers money.

    However under the current loan rules a student can borrow up to $57500 dollars which could almost double that default amount.

    There is no legitimate reason to fund their education on the tax payer's dime when they aren't supposed to be here in the first place. Also there is no recourse in the law that is offered against these "kids" if they defaulted on the loans, or didn't make it through the military or do two years of college.

    One last point I should have made in the story but left out. The Dream Act didn't even require an illegal to get any kind of degree except a GED or High School Diploma. Once they entered college all it required them to do was two years of college or approx 60 credit hours. There was no requirement for them to achieve anything except to get two years of college education within 10 years. They could have taken basket weaving, beginner guitar, cooking, spanish and any other number of electives and still qualified.

    • 5 votes
    Reply#8 - Sat Dec 18, 2010 3:51 PM EST
    jwc2blue

    I will spell out the simple logic and hopefully you can follow along

    Oh, I see. The Glenn Beck school of logic.

    1. The 31% referrs to the TOTAL number of students defaulting on the loans. It is illogical to apply that number to the children of illegals who might apply for the loans to attend college.

    2. You keep citing illegals, yet you state; "As to the crimes, I am referring to the parents." Who's going to school here, the parents or their children?

    3. " At approx $30 k each equals $2.79 billion dollars of defaulted loans backed by tax payers money."

    According to; http://www.finaid.org/loans/ ; "More than $100 billion in federal education loans and $10 billion in private student loans are originated each year." This means that less that 2.5% ($2.79 billion) of the loans go into default, and those defaults come from the students you're so adamant about denying an education to.

    Personally, I'm a little more concerned about the other billions of tax dollars that are getting defaulted on. I guess it's OK with you though.

    I can "follow along" just fine. The difference is that I will look past the rhetoric and think for myself, while you just "follow along."

    • 1 vote
    Reply#9 - Sat Dec 18, 2010 4:38 PM EST
    ArizonaBill

    jwc2blue,,,,,As I pointed out earlier most of the ones that the Illegal's "Dream Act" would affect were not even kids, but full grown adults.

    Those people have had a chance if they were really ever in college to apply for a Student Visa, a Green Card or even Citizenship none did ! These people some of which have had 10 or 11 Years to get Legal,,(they would already be Citizens or have graduated College) by now if they had put forth any effort !

    All these Illegals have ever wanted to do is complain, march and protest against America! Many if not most of them belong to anti-American hate groups such as LaRaza (the Race) or, "Chicanos Unidos" that openly talk about overthrowing part of the United States !

    If these Illegals really wanted to be part of the United States they would simple go about it in the Legal way. But their choice was to stand against America, to try to Force the people to give them citizenship. That is not the sign of someone that wants to become your friend or will support you down the road.

    Now maybe America will come to it's senses and clear out the K-12 schools and college of these Illegals and deport them and their families, Secure Our Border, and keep them out of Our Country for good.

    • 3 votes
    #9.1 - Sun Dec 19, 2010 6:51 AM EST
    Michael Lockwood

    jwc2blue

    I don't watch Glen Beck I find that he is very boring when trying to make a point so if you watch him and you saw this on his show it is purely coincidental.

    Please explain why applying the 31% of defaults to the illegals is not justified. Do you think they are going to be able to hack College any better than legal citizens?

    The PEW Hispanic Center did a study and found that only 48% of foreign born hispanics are graduate high school or attain a GED. Do you think this entire 48% that would have been eligible for college would have completed their studies? I guess you think the illegal "best and brightest" are somehow better or smarter than the best and brightest legal citizens.

    Your comment on the student loan defaults is pretty fuzzy. As for who the illegal are both parents and children fit that category; however do you think the parents do not benefit from their crimes if they come here illegally? Do they not benefit when their kids that are between the ages of 12 and 17 become undeportable under the Dream Act?

    Your outlook is very narrow and you see only the kids when in fact the parents also benefit. You obviously only follow the rhetoric of the "open borders" crowd instead of reading the facts and putting two and two together.

    I agree with Bill in that hopefully this next year the Congress will understand that the majority of the tax payers in this country are tired of giving the illegals a free ride and want them deported as quickly as possible.

    • 2 votes
    #9.2 - Sun Dec 19, 2010 11:41 AM EST
    Reply
    ArizonaBill

    Here is a sample of what these so-called good Illegals have in store for Americans,

    DREAM Act students vow revolution after act fails in the Senate

    “This is war!” claims Phoenix student Aldemar Cruz. “Republicans may have stopped the DREAM Act, but they won’t prevent La Reconquista from happening. “White people, watch out!”

    "Olivia Perez, an undocumented student who claims she was forced to fill out false paperwork in order to stay in the United States, says, “Latinos need to fight back. We need to march. We need to scream. If necessary, we need to riot."

    http://www.examiner.com/civil-rights-in-phoenix/dream-act-students-vow-revolution-after-act-fails-the-senate

    Well I would caution All Americans that starting today you take their Threats very seriously, and stay your distance from anyone that you believe may be one of these above mentioned people !

    • 5 votes
    Reply#10 - Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:08 AM EST
    mon glas

    Thanks for the links Arizona. Hard to believe there are people supporting thugs like those mentioned in these articles.

    • 2 votes
    #10.1 - Sun Dec 19, 2010 9:30 AM EST
    Chief CRD

    stay your distance from anyone that you believe may be one of these above mentioned people !

    Why should we be held hostage in our own nation? Capture them and their parents and deport them. This is not their nation this is OUR nation and they are here illegally. If they want any education for free, then they need get mommy and daddy to take them back home where they belong.

    Aldemar Cruz. "Republicans may have stopped the DREAM Act, but they won't prevent La Reconquista from happening. "White people, watch out!"

    Aldemar, you got the balls to walk up to any real American - white, black, brown, red or yellow - and say that? I doubt it, so crawl back to your third world country with your tail between your legs and get educated there.

    • 2 votes
    #10.2 - Mon Dec 20, 2010 9:23 AM EST
    Reply
    Elvis-362920

    The law would have given the children of illegals the right to go to college on the American Tax payer's dime. They would have been eligible for Stafford loans which are paid for by tax dollars and they would have been eligible for work/study positions.

    These people are not Americans, but want American tax dollars spent on them. Could calling it "foreign aid" be more politically correct?

    • 2 votes
    Reply#11 - Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:12 PM EST
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